what we read: What Survives in the Memory after the Death of a Brother?

Title: The Ghosts of Fourth Street: My Family, a Death, and the Hills of Duluth

Author: Laurie Hertzel

A summary from the publisher:

"Every family has its stories and secrets. Laurie Hertzel’s family had more than its share. At an early age, Laurie, the seventh of the ten Hertzel children, took on the challenge of sorting them out. Not old enough to be one of the Big Kids, yet too old to be with the Three Little Kids, she spent most of her time alone, reading, wandering, and observing her family as they moved around her in their house in Duluth. Though her parents were not warm, there were moments of closeness in those years―gifts of Laura Ingalls Wilder’s Little House books and special trips to the dairy for a sundae―but everything shattered after the sudden death of Laurie’s oldest sibling, eighteen-year-old Bobby, when she was just nine years old.

"Moving back and forth in time, Laurie reflects on Bobby’s death and what happens to a family’s story when no one can talk about a tragedy and its toll. In Ghosts of Fourth Street, readers witness how the apparition of memories, the shadow of needs unmet, and the spirit of a family once whole all linger long after the death of a child and brother. As Laurie shares her experiences, we see the emergence of her fascination with story and truth as she teaches herself to read and finds solace and inspiration in books amid the tensions and competing agendas within her big, complicated family."

In Conversation with the Author

For this special session, we were lucky enough to host the author, who patiently answered our many questions. What follows is an in-expert compilation of shared observations, questions, and answers.

Faith: "Of all of the passages I could have flagged, the one that just got me was 'The Hertzels and the Monahans die especially well.' I loved that, but I loved so many things about this book. And I also related to a lot of it. The tender observations of growing up were just spot on."

Chris: "How did you decide to include in the introduction the fact that these are your own memories and not the memories of the people you were writing about?"

Laurie: "I thought it was very important to say. I've called it (memoir) a fraught genre because it's from your own memory. There's a lot you can't prove. It's just how you remember it. And others may remember it differently. For instance, the passage about when I got stuck in the tree, I remember that event so clearly. But when I talked to my brother, he remembers it as a fence, not a tree. I've also learned that other people's memories are no better than mine."

Linda: "There is exquisite detail in this book. Nothing over the top. But just perfect. Are you a journal writer? How did the details come to you so clearly?"

Laurie: "People always ask me if the writing was therapeautic, but no. That's not why I wrote it. My whole life, I've felt really close to the child that I was at that time. I remember not just thoughts, but the feelings and the reactions and the confusion, and those questions stayed with me. It sounds so dumb, but this little girl has been right at my shoulder all my life. And then I published it, and I don't have to think about it now. The more you write the memories, the more you remember them. I was writing these stories about being a kid and how my dad liked to argue and my mother did not. She was holding up the newspaper between them while he ranted, and he reached over and ripped it down, and as a child, I was glad that he ripped the paper. That part of my life is very vivid."

Liz: How did you manage the family fall-out, writing about people some of whom are still alive?

Laurie: "Half of my family doesn't speak to me now. Long ago, I started a blog and wrote a lot of family stories. In the beginning, my mo thought it was great and would send me photos and small corrections. Over time, some of my siblings didn't like that I was doing it, that the stories were private. And then I published a journal story about my brother dying and that was the beginning of the rift. My mother stopped speaking to me and my younger brothers don't either."

Steve: "You seemed like a child growing up in isolation, but then you have a sweet scene of cooking with Evan. Was that a scene that was important to you?"

Laurie: "Very important. He and I became very close after Bobby died and we turned to each other. He's one of the ones who no longer speaks to me. But it was a relationship that deteriorated over time, not suddenly."

Glenn: How have other family members dealt with Bobby's death? Managed the tragedy?

Laurie: "When I was trying to write this, it wasn't a book. It was just memories and scenes and that was the event that was most pivotal. I started talking to my siblings. One sister started crying immediately and said she couldn't talk, even after 50 years. Another brother seemed like he had come to terms with it. And the younger ones don't remember it at all."

Chris: "The scene where your father takes you to Bridgeman's. It really says something about your father's relationship with children."

Laurie: "I first told that story to a friend when she had young children. and she had all of these things that she wanted her daughter to love, and likes that she wanted her child to share. When she heard the story, she laughed and said it was so funny. I tried to write it several times so that it was funny. And I couldn't. I finally just had to realize that it was sad for me as a child. I remember all of those feelings. It was a little tragedy in my life. I could only write it as a kid, and to that kid, it wasn't funny."

Laurie: "I am curious to know how you saw Guv. Did you see him as a monster?

The group: Some said no, that he was doing the best he could. Others said yes. That there were many chances for him to show his humanity and he didn't.

Laurie: "He was not a monster. But he was overwhelmed. Try to imagine being the sole breadwinner for 11 other people. My parents were completely overwhelmed. No money, many children, new to Duluth and didn't know anybody. I think my father's way of trying to control the family was rules and anger, and all of the kids rebelled in their own way. But we always got books for Christmas, and it was his doing. My mother was private almost to the point of being secretive. Also, she told stories that weren't true. But we took everything out of her. I think she just needed to keep some things to herself."

Liz: "There are literal ghosts in this book. But the memories and the stories are also ghosts of a sort."

Laurie: "I wouldn't have put ghosts in the title if there weren't real ghosts, but the ghosts are also the memories, and the people who aren't there anymore."

Blanche: "I also grew up in a very large family. And then suddenly, my father who paid very little attention to us showered the very last child with love. And I thought, what are the rest of us, chopped liver?"

Laurie: "After Bobby, my mother announced that she was starting over with the three littlest kids. I think that's another problem with the dynamics of the family."

Linda: "What are you working on now?"

Laurie: "I never thought anyone would want to read this book. It's so personal. But that has not been the case. And there are more ghost stories. My family has a lot. I started a Substack a few months ago, and now with that and teaching, I hadn't been writing. But I've started again, writing about my dog Angus, who is really difficult. He's a reactive dog. And people with reactive dogs started reacting. Someone needs to write a book about how owning a reactive dog doesn't require you to be a millionaire. So maybe I'll write that."